ATC and iFly disparity in location? - iFly General Discussions

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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsiFly General Di...iFly General Di...ATC and iFly disparity in location?ATC and iFly disparity in location?
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6/3/2014 10:07 AM
 
Thanks Tom,

You did partly probably explain one cause of the horizontal discrepency: The GPS/sectional may not agree where "the center" of the airspace is....... the location of the airport. I notice for example at my home airport the GPS makes the FBO the zero center. At a large airport such a disagreeent (FBO? Terminal? Runway center?) could easily account for 3/4th of a mile.

Discrepencies such as you and I encountered (a 300 foot disagreement about altitude or 3/4th of a mile, etc) COULD result in a unwanted situation, or if a controller is having a bad hair day a hassle of a violation report to FAA..... So I too would like a complete explaination.

Alex
 
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6/3/2014 10:15 AM
 
ComputerDoc wrote:"Although it's perfectly legal to fly under an overlying Class C or B without transponder (you're not IN their airspace) I wouldn't want to do that"


In the case of class B, that's normally not so. See 91.215 (b)(2) Unless you are flying an aircraft without an electrical system, you need a transponder within 30 nm of a class B airport.

Vaughn Simon Nexus 7 with Dual XGPS170
 
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6/3/2014 10:34 AM
 

"Transponder only required for classes _higher_ than class D."

It has been a while. I guess I need to bone up. :-)

TM

 
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6/3/2014 12:25 PM
 
Arthur wrote:

Couldn't the altitude discrepancy come from us having an uncalibrated transponder, since that's the source of Approach's altitude information?



There are many possible sources of altitude discrepancy. I commonly see a difference between my altimeter and what my transponder is reporting. A 200 feet difference isn't unusual! If you are receiving a traffic alert, remember that the other plane's transponder might be 200 feet off in the other direction! Therefore, when evaluating an alert I consider any difference in altitude less than 500 feet to be the SAME AS MY ALTITUDE.

Your pad is likely displaying GPS altitude, which is another altitude source altogether, and not necessarily correlated with what you are seeing on your altimeter or what your transponder is reporting.

Vaughn Simon Nexus 7 with Dual XGPS170
 
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6/3/2014 5:02 PM
 

Interesting thread.

On the iFly (and other apps I'm sure), airspace boundaries come from a detailed collection of lat/lon points provided by the FAA. It wouldn't suprise me (for Class D at least) if the controllers just drew a circle on their radar display with a sharpie, or something equally approximistical.

Regarding altitude...I didn't know radar provided altitude information to the controllers. I wonder if he was just looking out his window to get that number? To the other posters points...there are a few reasons GPS altitude will be different than pressure altitude. These are the two biggies:

  1. As you all know, we are constantly calibrating our altimeters to accomodate changing pressure. But this calibration is based on a measurement taken at ground level. So unless temps and pressure are perfectly standard, the higher you go, the more "error" you have in actual altitude. 50' per 1000' AGL is not uncommon. Since transpoders all report pressure altitude, this error really doesn't matter...we're all working off the same error.
  2. GPSes are very good at triangulating horizontally. The satellites you're tracking typically have a large variety of different horizontal distances from your current location, so it's pretty easy to measure and conclude where you are horizontally. But the relative vertical distance between you and the satellites is tiny in comparison. So unless you have a couple of satellites directly overhead, there is very little information to calculate your position vertically (altitude).

I typically assume my GPS altitude will be different than my pressure altitude by 10% AGL. This variation also factors into our traffic alerting system. ADSB traffic will be sometimes be reported as pressure altitude, and sometimes GPS altitude. And we won't know which.

Cheers,
Walter


Walter Boyd
President, Adventure Pilot
 
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